A Disservice to Amy and Rory: “Angels Take Manhattan” Reaction

Somehow we have stumbled to the final episode in the first half of the current series of Doctor Who and to Amy and Rory’s departure from the series. I wanted this episode to be better than all of the others this series because I love Amy and Rory, even if I don’t like how they are written most of the time and even if I don’t really believe all that time has passed. Still, oh so predictably, I really disliked “The Angels Take Manhattan” and found it to be one of the most problematic episodes yet.

My worst enemy the opening voiceover was of course back — rather than embracing the creepy silence of the angels as Moffat did in “Blink,” he felt the need to set up the episode with banal narration. Moffat episodes in the Smith era seem to have silence in all the wrong places and dialogue where there should be none. Also, sidenote: I’ve never been particularly keen on the old man prosthetics and much prefer when they just get another, similar looking actor in to play the older version because my disbelief in the prosthetics really takes me out of the story. Things I did like: the lift, the overhead angles looking down at the detective, the general lighting.

Back in the present and after some opening shots of Manhattan that reminded me rather a lot of Gossip Girl and Friends, Amy, Rory and the Doctor are reading in Central Park and Amy is sporting a rather nice pair of reading glasses. Cue Things That Made Rosianna Cross About This Episode Part 1: Aging. For some reason Moffat thought it appropriate to have Rory and the Doctor make comment (Rory tripping all over his words) on the age lines by Amy’s eyes (age lines invisible to the viewer of course.) It would have been a vastly different scenario if either a. Amy hadn’t been manic pixie dreamgirled already without having to abide by the expectations of being in a forever young, teenage state or b. Rory had been the one scrutinised. But it was so irrelevant and just felt like, as my flatmate Kayley just pointed out, another attempt to ease people into the end of Amy and Rory by assuring the audience that they’ve had a good long time with the Doctor. I don’t want to be eased into things, I want to be told a story and felt like that story wasn’t being told.

Rory goes to get coffee and the Doctor suddenly has a revelation that whatever he reads in the book will happen (so the book is a fixed point in time, I guess? Just like River’s diary) but only after we find out that the Doctor’s turned on noise is “Yowzah!” Awkward. Things That Made Rosianna Cross About This Episode Part 2: Yowzah.

Suddenly a wild River Song appears! Oh how I wish I had a strong enough Pokémon to defeat it. I can’t work out whether her presence in this episode was supposed to have some sort of relevance or she was just there to help the easing process. River plays exposition!girl, fulling embracing the opportunity to show off her supposedly superior knowledge, while the Doctor, trying to land in 1938, makes a lot of loud bangs and sparks happen in the TARDIS. Incidentally, have the warning messages on the TARDIS always been in English? I thought the messages on the console were in Gallifreyan but it seems the current series of Doctor Who favours 21st Century Earth English.

Rory and River are taken to a fancy house by mobsters and River  analyses vases. Rory gets thrown in the cellar with baby angels, natch. For some reason I didn’t find these angel babies as creepy as I thought I would, but it was Rory’s response to them and the nature of the match (finite, prone to burning out suddenly, difficult to hold on to with any sense of security) that made this scene play out quite well. When Amy and the Doctor finally get there, Rory has vanished from the cellar and River has to break her own hand to set herself free from a Weeping Angel. So much annoying, forced and husband-wife dialogue passes between the Doctor and River that I don’t even want to talk about it. It’s at some point that River tells Amy to never let the Doctor see her age and this brings us back to Things That Made Rosianna Cross About This Episode Part 1: Aging. Because however you spin River saying “don’t let the Doctor see you age, he doesn’t like it” it always always comes to behaving unnaturally for a man’s sake. To denying the reality of time. Fair enough the Doctor is uncomfortable with that but for River to imply to her mother that she is doing something wrong by letting him see her age reduces Amy to a projection of whatever the Doctor wants to see. Any lessons learned from “The Girl Who Waited” have been quickly forgotten and aging is to be rejected.

Activity happens, angels happen, reunions happen and what should have been the coolest moment of the episode turns out to be thoroughly underwhelming, serving only a one-liner from Rory “I always wanted to see the Statue of Liberty.” Really? You couldn’t build up to that a bit? Things That Made Rosianna Cross About This Episode Part 3: No Long Lasting Suspense.  Every suspense-heavy moment lasted only a few minutes until the next problem was introduced and even when Amy and Rory threw themselves off a building to a really crap soundtrack, I didn’t feel that bittersweet relief of knowing they’d destroyed the Angels because I was annoyed about how that self-sacrifice played out, at the slow motion and at the fact that it even happened.

For that to then not work and for there to be a surviving angel that takes Rory was sloppy storytelling but did upset me, so I suppose half a point in Moff’s direction for that. Amy’s decision to join him was, at that point, an obvious one but the Doctor’s breakdown made it quite hard to bear. As the Doctor cried, I couldn’t help but think of why River wasn’t more broken about it, regardless of the blue sky idea of her parents living out their days together. The Doctor mentions it almost as an afterthought as River calmly operates the TARDIS. River assures him that she will pop in and out and see him regularly. Oh. Great. Brilliant.

The Doctor’s finding out that Amy wrote Melody Malone and River asked Amy to leave him a message in the Afterword was quite a nice visual realisation as he ran through the park and to the picnic basket. It recalled Ten at the end of the library episodes running to River’s diary and opening up the sonic screwdriver with that last flickering echo remaining. The wording of the Afterword felt all wrong, though and too obvious. I wanted mystery to be left in it, rather than an Afterword that spoke directly to the Doctor, so that it would be something you might stumble across as a reader and find peculiar–a person talking about their experience with a friend, meeting artists and whales–without ever using the word “Doctor.” But maybe I am too demanding a customer.

Honestly I finished this episode feeling bored and annoyed by the story and at the fact that Amy and Rory left in such a disappointing way that might have been so great. I truly feel this episode was a disservice to their characters, as this series has been. I’ll still watch at Christmas, but not with the urgency and excitement that I did every other year because I’m just setting myself up to be let down again.

What did you think of “The Angels Take Manhattan?”

  • Jake

    Ah man, I really enjoyed it! Sorry you didn’t like it, but I’m hoping you’ll enjoy the fresh start at Christmas :)

  • Anna

    I don’t know: I have to say, I did enjoy seeing that River and the Doctor’s marriage is a little dysfunctional, and that she’s frightened of showing him endings (I like to think she knows how unstable he is) and I love that the Doctor put his love for Amy over her happiness, because I think he has lost some of the maturity he had in the God Complex: he has become too involved, too attached.

  • Helena

    I didn’t particularly enjoy it. I was sad that they left but it all felt really underwhelming. I hated the annoying slow motion moments and the husband and wife lines between the Doctor and River were bloody awful. Why can’t River disappear into a vortex as well??

  • http://twitter.com/JaqAvery Jacqueline Avery

    Yes. Exactly. I’ve been so easily pleased the rest of this season, and have been open minded even when things downright didn’t make sense. But with this episode, there was so much hype and speculation I let myself get really excited (rookie mistake). I was hoping for a major twist, a devastating farewell and some scary, scary angels. What I got was uncomfortable, difficult to believe and downplayed the good bits and put all the focus on the worst written parts.
    People all over tumblr/facebook/twitter are devastated and talking about how they haven’t stopped crying. And I find myself in the awkward position of trying to figure out what the hell they got so sad about.
    Brian (and the rest of their families) never seeing Amy and Rory again, never knowing what happened. River not getting a proper goodbye to her parents. Rory not getting a chance to say goodbye to -anyone-. These are all devastating moments that either didn’t even happen, or may as well not have. The few sad bits we actually got seemed all wrong, and just didn’t elicit an emotional response (and I’m not exactly hard, DW has made me bawl my eyes out multiple times). Maybe it’s because we had the Ponds “devastating farewell” shoved down our throats for months, but god, it was anticlimactic.
    I’m so disappointed.

  • Robyn

    I am not a particularly critical watcher/ reader of anything. I find it quite easy to immerse myself in a story no matter how poorly written etc it may be. So during the episode I cried and was sad but relived that they lived together, all the things Moffat wanted. However, I look back to the departure of Rose and Donna (my two favourite companions) and remember how devastated I was. Particularly with Donna I was in some sort of, Post-Doctor-Donna state of depression and for a couple of days afterwards. I just don’t feel it with Amy and Rory’s departure. I think the overall feeling I am left with is let down.

  • Emily

    I quite enjoyed it really, although I do wish the episode contained more suspense (it is a weeping angel episode after all)! It was heart wrenching when the Doctor reacted to reading ‘Amelia’s Last Farewell’ and I liked seeing River and the Doctor as more of a couple (I had never really understood their relationship before this)! It was fitting that Amy and Rory went out as they did, together but I think that there were a few details that could have been improved in this episode (those little ‘golden moments’ that make an episode were missing). Farewell Ponds, you shall be missed

  • Moy

    I hated that they used the Statue of Liberty as the selling point in this episode. “Oh my god everyone, the Statue of Liberty is a weeping angel!” but the statue didn’t have a specific purpose in the episode at all! They could have replaced it with a regular sized angel and the whole scene would have played out exactly the same.

    I agree that the soundtrack to their suicide was kinda crap and was nothing compared to Rose/11th’s departure. But I thought the slow motion suicide was dramatic enough to be their real departure and it could have been iconic but I was thoroughly disappointed when it wasn’t actually it and then Amy decides to (anticlimactically) sacrifice herself for Rory a second time.

    And I agreed that the afterword was so direct. In the past, everything written to the Doctor was quite passive and mysterious. The whole story was a mess although I did like the cinematography in it. I think Moffat’s just trying to milk his only good idea (but he even ruined that because he made the angels move on-screen last season and now they’re making sounds and producing air to blow out matches?)

    Also River had no reason to be there. She was just in the way of everything and didn’t really have any input in the episode besides the fact that she is Amy’s daughter and they probably wanted the whole family to be there. But I can’t stop thinking about Rory’s dad and how he will never know what happened to his son.

    There are probably a lot more things for me to complain about but I’ll just stop typing now because I’m going to make myself angry.

  • magda

    I had to cry, even though I knew it wasn’t a good episode, but just because thinking of Karen and Arthur leaving made me really sad. I had a lot of problems with this episode (actually the whole season) too.
    Another annoyance for me is, that the whole thing doesn’t really feel resolved. It just feels like Moffat has loads of ideas to get big and epic scenes into the show, but in the end doesn’t do anything significant just drops them. Like the statue of liberty: everyone was expecting to see a really scary scene and then it’s just “lol nope, this doesn’t actually have anything to do with the plot, we just thought it looked really cool!!”
    And I really didn’t understand the whole “Oh I’m sorry, Rory, there is just a tiny chance of saving you, bye”. It just felt wrong that the Doctor wouldn’t try everything to save Rory.

  • Teatime

    I think it’s quite clear that River is very broken up about it. Not to be rude but it’s called subtlety and given that you’re constantly asking not to be spoon fed anything and to have added layers of complexity to the characters I’m surprised you didn’t notice.

    “It doesn’t matter” really IS a psychopathic response if taken at face value. It tends to be what people say when something actually matters a great deal. If she were the kind of person who could wear her heart on her sleeve she wouldn’t have been able to survive the life she’s had. Besides that, it’s also a testament to her enormous strength, compassion and generosity. The doctor remembers that they were her parents. I don’t think she forgot that when she told the doctor to shut up and encouraged Amy to go. She then holds it together (you even see her take a moment to steady herself when the doctor finally sympathises with her) and instead lets the doctor grieve. That doesn’t mean you’re not suffering. In my experience grief can be greatest when left unexpressed. It’s all “in character” for her. She’s used to the hurt.

    Also, I cried throughout the whole thing and I’m glad I’m not the only one! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/sep/29/doctor-who-angels-take-manhattan)

    • http://twitter.com/JaqAvery Jacqueline Avery

      I agree, but I think more time could have been spent on River’s reaction, even if she was trying to pretend she wasn’t having one. Sometimes I feel like the writers can’t decide if they like River as a character or not. I personally love her, and I would have loved more focus on what she was losing (and also on what Rory was losing) not just on the Doctor and Amy. If you’re going to have four main characters, you have to treat them all as if they’re important.

  • Cate

    I’m so glad people agree with me! The whole aging thing really rubbed me up the wrong way, and the pacing felt really awkward and anti-climactic for me. It took me an hour or so to get my head around the whole thing and I still feel like it was just messy and very disappointing. I’ve been looking forward to your review because everyone else I know loved it and I was worried that I was being unnecessarily picky!

  • http://elinious.tumblr.com Elinious

    I thought the Angels Take Manhattan was horrible. I was thinking of just turning it off halfway through but I couldn’t do that to a show I would have once called my favourite. So even though I had little hope of it improving, as I had gotten used to the rest of this series, I sat through it.

    I’ve never been overly fond of Amy and Rory. I always liked them, but I just got tired of them rather quickly. I’ve been ready for them to go for a long time. Still, I don’t feel like this was an appropriate ending for their story. Like, not at all, to be honest. It’s quite disrespectful the way they left their characters.

    Seeing Doctor Who like this makes me long for Ten and Donna Noble or Nine and Rose, just anything but this cause I don’t like seeing one of my favourite series being ruined.

    The only thing thumbs up I would give is maybe to Matt’s acting, which I was impressed by at some bits, and visually speaking, some of the shots were nice.

    I don’t yet know if I’m going to bother with the Christmas special. Knowing me I will probably watch it after Christmas as at some point there’ll be a moment I won’t have anything better to do, but who knows…

  • Matt

    I’m surprised and a bit disappointed that you (and nearly all of the other commenters so far) really didn’t like it; I genuinely thought it was a good episode, a fitting ending, and probably the best episode of the fall season. Certainly this episode was nowhere near as problematic for me as “The Asylum of the Daleks,” too much of which seemed to be blatantly against continuity.

  • Jommu

    I find myself agreeing with almost everything you’ve said. If it were a regular episode I’d be marginally less annoyed as I felt the episode was still better than Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and A Town Called Mercy, but as a final fair well to the characters that brought us The Pandorica, The Doctor’s Wife, Vincent and The Doctor and A Christmas Carol it was incredibly sub-par. I spoke to a friend about the episode and she made an excellent point about paradoxes in that they seem to have become nothing more than a convenient plot device. One paradox is fine but another one will cause unending cataclysm, the only factor deciding which is which is The Doctor or (Unfortunately) River as they are the only ones in that fictional universe who could possibly understand them in a scientific context. Thus, plot convenience everywhere with an explanation roughly equating to “It works because of reasons”.
    The only thing I disagree with is that I thought the soundtrack was outstanding. The baby angel sound effect killed what could have been something with a real scare factor though..

  • Tyler

    That’s interesting, I really enjoyed it! I liked how we finally got to see Amy really show love toward her husband, she chose him over the doctor. I thought the book was very clever and Amy leaving the note at the end was very touching. I agree it didn’t have that eerie silence Blink had, and the beginning narration was bad. Overall I thought that it was a nice farewell to The Ponds and they got to live their lives out together, happy.

  • clarky

    I understand the Doctor could not take the tardis to New York 1938 due to time energy or some such but could he not visit in 1939 or go to Boston and travel by train?! Or am i missing something that caused him not to be able to see them again?

    • http://twitter.com/Miya37 Caitlin

      I was confused by that too. Maybe if they had to keep running to avoid any angels he wouldn’t know where to find them or wouldn’t want to draw attention to them?

      • MsMorlowe

        He couldn’t see them again because of the paradox: he already hadn’t seen them before they died. It’s like when Ten couldn’t see the brigadier when he was saying goodbye to all his companions, or couldn’t go back to (can’t remember her name: woman in 18th century France during Girl in the Fireplace): because they’d died before their timelines intersected again.

    • http://twitter.com/bekabee Beka

      This is exactly my issue with it! I don’t understand why the Doctor can never see them again! I mean, surely there’s a way?

    • Danny

      Nope. He had already read “Amelia’s last farewell”. He can’t visit her ever again after having a “last” farwell.

    • nicnac

      I think it had to do with the gravestone. The gravestone meant that Rory’s death in the past was fixed (just like seeing Rory die earlier in the episode.) The doctor couldn’t interfere with their lives after that.

  • Rosianna hater

    this is a horribly written article. Give some insight and analysis not just baseless opinon.

    • Laura

      I agree

    • ViridianPanther

      Well, aren’t you the bravest little boy on the internet.

  • Brielle

    I wanted to love this episode, but the first five or ten minutes gave away some dramatic details. The guy walking into a hotel room, seeing his ID, seeing his old self, walking into a corridor full of angels, running up to the roof, BAM, there’s the Statue of Liberty.

    When Rory wandered into the hotel, battery farm, warehouse, I don’t know what it was really, I was a bit annoyed. Firstly, why did he see that building and think “I’m gonna go in there!” and, well, there was an angel statue outside. How did he not see it and realize something was wrong? Then of course he was in the elevator, going to his room.. As soon as the other three bundled in it was obvious we’d see an elderly Rory lying in bed, gasping for breath. Then there was that load rumbling. I’m all for dramatic irony, but seeing the Statue of Liberty snarl at that detective dude twenty minutes prior ruined what could have been an amazing television moment! Instead it was like, urgh, Rory’s on the roof, ol’ Liberty is gonna be behind him.

    I did enjoy seeing the relationship of the four ‘blossom’ – I’ll probably be skinned alive for saying this, but over the past two series I’d always got the impression that the Doctor and River’s relationship was based on excitement and flirting, and that Amy cared more about what the Doctor COULD do for her than everything Rory HAD done for her. My opinion, mind. Having Rory ask Amy to push him, and then Amy stumbling onto the ledge was actually rather nice. The music was godawful though, and the slow motion clip of them spinning didn’t seem right.

    Their departure also didn’t fit in my mind. As soon as it was revealed the Ponds last episode would be The Angels Take Manhattan I knew how they would be played out.. I had just hoped that a huge twist would come in the final ten minutes. A lot of people had speculations about Rory being the Master, and even though I didn’t like that particular idea, I had accepted that there were loads of suspicious moments surrounding him and that something had to happen in this episode..

    Alas, nothing did; Rory just disappeared. I found it upsetting that the Doctor was willing to let Rory stay in the 1930s/40s alone and never let Amy be with him – Actually, I found that far more upsetting than when Amy was gone too.

    I had hoped we’d see a glimpse of Amy and Rory finding eachother in the 30s or 40s and then settling into normal life there. Just thirty seconds would’ve been nice..

  • lemonlace

    I feel exactly the same. The episode felt rushed and didn’t quite make sense. The angels weren’t even frightening. That’s not even mentioning the characterisations…

  • http://twitter.com/Miya37 Caitlin

    I actually really liked this episode. Not loved, the way I have with some other finales, but definitely liked. My main complaint (and I’ve had it throughout the whole season) is that it felt too fast. Like they threw all these things at you and then suddenly wrapped it up without explaining anything very thoroughly because they remembered they had a time limit.

    Honestly I didn’t have a problem with the “don’t let him see you age” bit – I think it was much more a testament to the Doctor’s imperfect character rather than some misogynistic jab. He’s never been able to handle the fact that his companions grow older, not just Smith but his past regenerations too. I saw it more as a “give him what he needs, just for the little while you’re with him” rather than a “give the man what he wants” thing. I mean, it’s still problematic (the Doctor needs to just accept the fact that the humans he loves can’t live forever), but it’s not misogynistic.

    And I was okay with the way the Ponds left, too. I liked the play between omniscience and fate throughout the episode and how that came out with Rory reading his own tombstone. The surviving angel did feel a tad sloppy, I’ll give you that, but I really loved the dialogue between Amy, River, and the Doctor immediately after. I thought they conveyed River’s feelings quite well, too. She’s never been one to wear her emotions on her sleeve, but I thought what they gave her was more than enough to show that she was definitely saddened by the loss of her parents.

  • Mach

    Well, I think River wasn’t upset because she could still visit them whenever she wanted. That brings up a plot whole of the Doctor also being able to visit them by simply using a Vortex Manipulator. The Manipulator also could have been used to get them all out of this entire episode. Moving on, tho… Aging. I think this was really about the Doctor’s lack of it. If he stays around anyone long enough, he’ll have to watch them grown old and die. I’m thinking that that may be River’s reason for not traveling with her. So he can’t watch her age day to day. Just a thought. But hiding the aging keeps him from having to acknowledge that he outlives every one he cares about.
    That said.
    My favorite part of the episode was Rory mocking the ridiculousness of his constant dying. I thought that was a brilliant way to poke fun at his character.

    • cool

      River cant regenerate anymore because she gave up her regenerations to save the doctor after she poisoned him BUT the life she has now is still immortal so she wont age.

  • Jaime Nicole

    I was very sad at the end of this episode I was sad to see Amy and rory go. I hated seeing river again, but still I enjoyed the episode. It was also surprising to me, because I didn’t remember that this is the one where they leave. For me, I will always love dr who, but its now a show for easy fun and excitement, as opposed to a show that I can really say is thought through and contemplative.

  • http://twitter.com/heyheyamanda18 Amanda

    I don’t think it’s necessarily the last time River will see Rory and Amy on her timeline. Maybe some of what we’ve seen in previous series is River’s future but Rory and Amy’s past. Same with the doctor – maybe some of the episodes this season were him going back to an earlier spot on their timeline to spend more time with them (running to them before they fade away) – it’s not like he always appears to them on the same timeline they’re on. I think that could account for River’s near lack of reaction and Eleven’s strange looks when Rory and Amy aren’t looking in earlier eps. It makes sense, right? It’s not a total impossibility, unless I’m missing something. And so maybe he didn’t break a promise to Brian, maybe he was saying that (“Never them”) because he already knew how their story ended and couldn’t handle telling Brian. Like saying “Everything will be fine” when he knows it won’t be.

  • http://twitter.com/Leah617 Leah Cornish

    Oh Rosi – you and I are so destined to never agree on these episodes. I do feel sad that you didn’t enjoy the first half of the season. Maybe it was the way the five eps were set up. Hopefully that means a companion and style reboot will be right up your alley come Christmas.

    Also I hate the v/o too. It makes me nuts in all television. Except for this one only because it was paying homage to the noir films of old.

  • MortimerBooks

    It seems like there wasn’t really any overarching story to this.

    It just felt like lots of little scenes thrown together with some vague, undeveloped plot about the angels using Manhattan as a take away.

    I’m really beginning to hate Moffat for what he’s done to this show (I know he’s not the only one responsible for the shows direction).

    I hate him for making me dislike my very favourite show.

    Doctor Who has changed from a well paced, well plotted and just all round incredibly well written show into lots of little bits of glittery crap that sparkle in the headlights as you’re approaching them but splatter just like any sh*t does when it hits your wind shield.

    I felt sad about Amy and Rory but only because of what had been built up over the course of season 5 and the very few decent bits in season 6.

    Excuse me while I watch my R.T.D era DVD’s and sob uncontrollably.

  • Victoria

    I don’t think it was quite as horrible as you did, Rosiana, but it definitely wasn’t my favorite departure episode. I really dislike the narration and the bit at the beginning (contributed nothing to the plot), but I actually really liked River this episode. She wasn’t putting up with the doctor’s shit, and i took the aging thing a completely different way. To me it seemed more like they were trying to show how hurtful the doctor can be with or without realizing it and i thought her reaction was actually very natural – like when people i really care about hurt me, i don’t always tell them, which i think it a fairly common response. Sure, it’s not “feministy” or “strong” but i really thought it added depth to River’s character. I also thought she was very affected by her parents leaving, though she does get to see them again – she can use a vortex manipulator and she writes the book and then gives it to amy, so they obviously have to come into contact again.
    I didn’t like the use of the statue of liberty. actually, i watched the episode at a party and everyone was upset because it’s made of copper, not stone and was just poorly done.
    But when you say that you don’t think it’s a fitting ending for Amy and Rory, I completely disagree. Amy and Rory always have to be together and they always chose each other. I also don’t think they would have left the doctor any other way, since they were pulling away but decided in the Power of Three to stay with the doctor. And I really liked the twist at the end with the surviving angel. Most of the time Moffat annoys me with his obvious hints (where do you get the eggs?) but the angel twist at the end was hinted to by briefly showing a benign looking angel statue in the grave yard before they left and right when they got back. I thought it was much better done than some of his other twist endings lately.

  • Moribund Cadaver

    One thing I will offer is that the bit about “aging” can’t really be taken as a typical statement because it’s not about a regular man… it’s about the Doctor and his situation. It’s not even about the fact that the Doctor is male.

    River had just remarked to the Doctor’s face, the difficulty of having a relationship with an immortal who hides behind a childish face and personality. River’s warning to Amy is more a warning that this specific person, the Doctor, has a deep problem with being reminded everyone else in the universe (regardless of gender) is not like him. And he doesn’t deal with it well. So if you’re going to love the Doctor, them’s the breaks. That’s his personal psychopathy one must tragically come to terms with.

    In context, it didn’t feel like it was playing into objectification of women or any unthinking male bias at all. It was more a reinforcement of how sad the Doctor’s state was, due to what he is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/schakmakian92 Susan Chakmakian

    I think the whole “the Doctor doesn’t like “aging” thing” has less to do with a shallow obsession with youth and more to do with the fact that aging = eventually dying (permanently), and how that scares the Doctor. This idea, of course, isn’t new to DW as this situation was similarly addressed in School Reunion, where Ten says that he doesn’t age and doesn’t die naturally but has to watch his companions go through that process, knowing that he can do next to nothing about it – “You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can’t spend the rest of mine with you”. That ties really well into the sort of “Peter Pan”-esque vibe that goes in hand with the Eleventh Doctor’s stories.
    (That being said, the way River phrases it is really awkward, and I’ve always had a really hard time caring about her as a character. Therefore, I think the problem here is not inherent to the idea itself but rather has to do with the way it was executed.)

  • Danny

    My main problem was this wasn’t the Angels not being scary or the lack of suspense or action or logic.

    It was the lack of 2-parter. I miss them. You build tension and can dwell on consequences longer.

    Rory sent back in time- FIXED River is there to help him
    Can’t land the TARDIS- FIXED something to do with a jar that makes no sense at all but okay
    Man is nasty to Angels- FIXED he got blown away by a landing TARDIS
    River has broke her wrist- FIXED with an ability we’ve never seen before and not really explained
    Rory is caught by angels- FIXED they just moved him
    Can’t find Rory- FIXED we read the book
    Rory MUST die- FIXED no he doesn’t.
    The building is full of Angels- FIXED just run. They don’t even move if you’re not looking anymore
    If we jump we die- FIXED you don’t

    Then no goodbye to Rory.
    Then these rules that “If you read it you can’t change it” spring up stopping The Doctor ever saying goodbye. Why? He changed it in Waters of Mars. If the woman never killed herself at the end nothing would’ve stopped him changing a fixed event that was written down and he read.

    But I cried my heart out when The Doctor started begging Amy to come back. Never cried at Who before.

  • Bert

    Thanks for the review! And I just wanted to say thumbs up to your video on youtube! I’m 26 years old, and I still want to love Doctor Who as well. I don’t think it’s something you simply outgrow.

    To me the show has become somewhat harder to watch as well. I guess the difference being that I usually find it difficult to find out what it is that makes it harder to watch. But you’ve made it a lot clearer to me: it’s definitely about the story/writing telling to feel this or that. It just doesn’t work for me.

    Also, the episodes feel so different from the Moffat episodes during the Davies era, that it seems to have lost its spark. I was so excited about Moffat taking over the series, and season five was great!
    But something changed during season six, and has gotten worse with this season. I guess it must be a terribly hard job to write for Doctor Who, but I had hoped the writing would get better as the series progressed.

    I feel the trailer really was better than the episodes :(

    Anyway, there’s a great podcast called the Doctor’s Companion, where they have expressed even stronger opinions about this episode. I thought it was a great listen, but keep in mind that it is just the opinion of two guys.

  • Poor Man’s Rory

    To anyone who is still reading these comments (show has just aired here in Australia), why did River:
    * talk to Amy about her handheld vortex manipulator?
    * grab Amy’s hand in the graveyard?
    * leave the graveyard in the TARDIS (doesn’t she have a handheld vortex manipulator?

  • Tardis

    What fathoms me about the very strong negative views held towards these episodes (by most of the key voices in the nerdfighter community), is that they are negative because of weak writing, and/or too many plot holes. Now usually I would say those are completely valid reasons for disliking a show, however in this case those reasons fall flat. Doctor Who has had major plot holes since its relaunch in 05; it has also consistently exhibited lazy writing (remember RTD and his love-affair with the reset button?). It has always been overwrought, and completely nonsensical. In fact the show was at its worst during DT’s final season/specials (Superhero Master? Doctor Donna? Human Ten?). There were the rare gems (Turn Left, Midnight, Silence in the library), but overall the series was a sentimental mess. Towards the end of his run, RTD’s writing became extremely gimmicky The main aim being to reunite characters, portray The Doctor as a Messiah, and ensure each companion (past and present) received a happy ending. The coherence of the plot, and quality of writing played second fiddle to all of the above.

    A popular criticism of Moffatt is that he can’t write women. I agree, River, and Oswell do seem to share many of the same qualities (Amy, I think, is an exception). However the same is true of Martha, Donna, and Rose. They were all young working class women who were unsatisfied with their lives. They all craved romantic love for self-fulfillment (the key trait I disliked in these characters). They were all ultimately reduced to helpless damsels. A point RTD really drove home when he gave Rose a human clone of The Doctor (a decision I will never come to terms with), Married Donna off, and paired Martha with Micky (two extremely rushed and unnecessary plots; the only purpose they served was to provide a happy ending). At the same time RTD also wanted to present these women as strong and independent; which it seems he could only do by making them (all) the saviors of man-kind. That’s basic writing, these characters where caricatures accommodating to popular opinion of what a women ‘should’ be. The romantics are pleased, because the female companions are ‘emotional beings’, and the feminists are pleased because they are ‘independent warriors’. In all of this we lose the substance that makes them real.

    I mean honestly speaking DW has never been an exceptionally written show, you can literally list the truly brilliant episodes off the top of your head. There aren’t many. However I still love the show because it’s fun to watch. It doesn’t takes itself seriously, and it has a lot of charisma. It, once again, makes me feel like the 13 year old kid I was when I first started watching it. I think that’s a pretty beautiful thing.

    If the show no longer appeals to you, that’s fair enough. However I just can’t take people seriously when they say the reason for their dwindling interest is weak writing, because the weak writing has always been there. More so before than now.